Talk:Greco-Italian War

Semi-protected edit request on 7 May 2024

In the phrase in the footnotes "Some of the Greeks' weaponry was also superior to the Italian; the Czechoslovak-madeHotchkiss machine gun"

A space is needed between "Czechoslovak-made" and "Hotchkiss" CasablancaEdit (talk) 23:10, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

 Done Jamedeus (talk) 00:46, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Result

See Template:Infobox military conflict

result – optional – this parameter may use one of two standard terms: "X victory" or "Inconclusive". The term used is for the "immediate" outcome of the "subject" conflict and should reflect what the sources say. In cases where the standard terms do not accurately describe the outcome, a link or note should be made to the section of the article where the result is discussed in detail (such as "See the Aftermath section"). Such a note can also be used in conjunction with the standard terms but should not be used to conceal an ambiguity in the "immediate" result. Do not introduce non-standard terms like "decisive", "marginal" or "tactical", or contradictory statements like "decisive tactical victory but strategic defeat". Omit this parameter altogether rather than engage in speculation about which side won or by how much.

Removed the overly detailed entry for result on the basis of the above. Editors might wish to consider 'See Aftermath section' instead. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 19:57, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Keith-264, this keeps being a problem. Obviously your version saying "Axis victory" was correct. Now some have done a 180 and changed it to say that the war ended with a Greek victory, which is just wrong. Surely Greece was able to stop the initial invasion and launch a counter-offensive into Albania, but the campaign continued: the Greek offensive stalled, an Italian counter-offensive was launched, the Italian counter-offensive also stalled, further actions occurred with the British sending also a land expedition while the Greek forces were being gradually depleted, and finally Germany coming in to help the Italians occupy Greece. Given that all these events form the war, how can one say the end of the campaign was an Allied victory? Calling it as such confuses a part of the campaign with the whole campaign. Similarly the territorial change is Greece being occupied by the Axis, not southern Albania occupied by Greece, that is an intermediate phase of the front. I don't understand why this is so difficult for some.2A01:E11:17:40B0:853B:13C4:7D4C:3CFB (talk) 14:09, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

I have noticed it has been changed again with a summary of the events, obviously it's better than "Greek victory"...but I think the intro already summarises that sequence of events and we do not need the infobox replicating the intro. So, User:Jheeeeeeteegh, probably just "Axis victory" is better and more coincise and the occupation part should just link to Axis occupation of Greece.2A01:E11:17:40B0:853B:13C4:7D4C:3CFB (talk) 14:15, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Dear all, please read Template:Infobox military conflict before contemplating an alteration to the result criterion. A discussion of the difference between the Italian invasion and the German invasion should be in the Aftermath section and briefly noted in the lead. "result – optional – this parameter may use one of two standard terms: "X victory" or "Inconclusive". The term used is for the "immediate" outcome of the "subject" conflict and should reflect what the sources say." Seems straightforward to me. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 14:23, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi. For your information, I did not put the Axis victory in the result infobox. It was Keith's edit. Recently a Greek editor put a Greek victory in the infobox instead of Axis victory. But to avoid edit conflicts. I edited it to the See Aftermath section..Ciao! Jheeeeeeteegh (talk) 02:06, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Jheeeeeeteegh I see. What about the territorial change part, it says "Greek occupation of southern Albania until April 1941" but that is not a final result, and it does not say when this occupation started and that it followed the Italian invasion. So it's an intermediate phase. If we need to put all phases in, then we should put first an Italian occupation of Greek Epirus until the Greek counter-offensive succeded in pushing the Italians out of Greece, then a Greek occupation of southern Albania, and finally an Axis occupation of Greece....but I don't think that's needed. I think it should be only the latter. The various stages of the war should not be put there, they are already in the intro. The front being moved up and down during the war should not be put in the territorial change section, that is for the final result. 2A01:E11:17:40B0:B85C:7ADA:7C03:4F3 (talk) 04:37, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

The problem is, readers only needs a immediate outcome of the war. An X victory or a See Aftermath Section would be the only 2 options. I will delete the part where the Greeks occupied Southern Albania until April 1941. The purpose of the campaignbox is to summarise and finalize what did happen. But for my opinion (of course irrelevant) but I'm just stating my opposition here. An Axis victory here would be the only result here as the Greeks didn't dislodge the Italians out of Albania. If that really happened that would be a Greek victory. But in reality, the Greco-Albanian front from January 1941 to April 1941 was stalemate until the German intervention at the same time the Italian second spring offensive brought Greece to collapse as well the bulk of the Greek forces in Albania. Jheeeeeeteegh (talk) 05:13, 3 September 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 September 2024

Oxford commas required. 64.189.18.28 (talk) 05:39, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

I meant comma. 64.189.18.28 (talk) 05:39, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. meamemg (talk) 14:49, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Result of the War in summary box 28.10.24

Edited, to give people a brief quick results summary, like most wikipedia war pages do, in the results section, in the summary box, rather then having to read a whole section instead. Simply writing, see aftermath section, is not sufficient I don't think. Many people may not bother reading it, and simply want a quick answer. And a brief sentence detailing the result of the war, provides that necessary answer. Aristotle1991 (talk) 12:32, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

We discussed this above various times: per wiki rules, the course of operations or intermediate moments of the conflict do not belong in the result section, you have to look at the end of operations and give a concise sentence. "Initial victory of of X followed by final defeat" or longer sentences like the ones you reintroduced to give further infos on how the results came about are apparently not an accepted parameter. The summary you want belongs in the intro of the article, and it's already there. What happens is that admins and other users remove this kind of stuff over and over, because that's the rules Wiki has. 2A01:E11:17:40B0:49EE:3869:AB41:A460 (talk) 18:49, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Per Wiki Rules: Template:Infobox military conflict the result of the infobox can be only a "X" victory, Inconclusive, or See Aftermath section. We already discussed it at the top and we already decided to use the result "See Aftermath section" at the infobox so the readers can understand its result for both opposing parties. Jheeeeeeteegh (talk) 21:07, 29 October 2024 (UTC)